Everyday Talent Podcast

S2EP8 Finding Your Path as a Creative with Nedda Sarshar

• Betty Xie, Nedda Sarshar • Season 2 • Episode 8

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Have you ever felt that nagging feeling that something's just not right in your career? That maybe you're on the wrong path, even if it's one you've invested time and effort into? Today's guest, Nedda Sarshar, knows that feeling all too well. Once on the path to becoming a lawyer, Nedda made a bold leap to follow her passion for filmmaking.

Nedda's journey is a testament to the power of trusting your gut and embracing uncertainty. She shares her experiences navigating the challenges of career reinvention, from facing societal expectations to finding stability while pursuing her creative dreams. Nedda's story reminds us that it's never too late to listen to your inner voice and create a career that truly fulfills you. 

Key Takeaways:

  • 00:00 Intro
  • 02:45 - Nedda's Early Career Aspirations and Challenges
  • 07:30 - The Importance of Trusting Your Gut and Carving Your Own Path
  • 15:30 - The Impact of Honesty on Nedda's Writing
  • 19:00 - Navigating the Transition from Law to Filmmaking
  • 26:30 - Balancing a Day Job with Creative Pursuits
  • 35:00 - The Importance of Stability and Flexibility in a Creative Career
  • 42:00 - Nedda's Film "Unibrow" and Future Aspirations
  • 49:30 - How to Connect with Nedda


This episode is also available on Youtube. Watch it on our Youtube Channel here:
https://www.youtube.com/@bettyxcoach


About Nedda: 


Nedda Sarshar is an Irani-Canadian writer and filmmaker based out of the Greater Toronto Area. Her work has garnered international and national recognition. Her short film, Unibrow, is an Oscar-eligible film that won Best Jury Award for Live Action at the New York International Children Film Festival and has been accepted to other Academy-Award and Canadian Screen Award Qualifying film festivals. Nedda is the recipient of the Outstanding Female Filmmaker Award at the McMinnville Festival and the winner of Reel Asian Film Festival's So You Think You Can Pitch Contest. Her first short film, Rachel and Raha, won Best Short Film at the Toronto LGBT Film Festival and Best LGBT Film at the Toronto Short Film Festival.  She is also a published writer, with her poetry recognized in the Best Canadian Poetry series and her short story, Soap, shortlisted for the Peter Hinchcliffe's Short Fiction Award. She loves telling stories about diasporas, identity crisis’ and star-crossed lovers.


Connect with Nedda:


Website: http://www.neddasarshar.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nedsjan/?hl=en 

IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm9862212/ 


About Betty


Betty Xie is a creative and career coach for creatives. Her 1:1 coaching program has helped photographers, filmmakers, visual artists, arts leaders, and arts consultants to design and implement intentional growth in their practice so that they can make their art and make happier money. Check out her 1:1 coaching programs here: www.xiebetty.com/coaching


Subscribe to Passionate Enough, an e-newsletter for creative people refusing to compromise their life and wellbeing for aimless hustles. Be passionate enough and have a fulfilling career.

www.xiebetty.com/enews


*FREE Resource* Discover your creative career archetype today: https://www.xiebetty.com/quiz

Anybody who's I think like experienced very bad like bouts of like depression or or like anxiety knows the difference between those really like I think like difficult stages and and like a healthy mind in the sense that like You can recognize the good the bad the ugly and it just doesn't have to sit as intensely on you. And I strive as much as possible to sit in that like environment because I think that's where the work can be done. We live in a time that holding down one job title for a whole career is not possible anymore. At some point of our journey we can expect a career reinvention is going to happen. So how do we embrace that? What does it take for us to navigate a career reinvention mindfully and sometimes even proactively? On this season of the Everyday Talent Podcast we are talking about tales of reinvention. Tune in as we dive into this topic with fellow creatives and experts. Welcome to the Everyday Talent Podcast. This is your go to podcast for the most honest look into all things creative career related. I'm your host Betty. I'm a creative a non profit consultant and a career and business coach for creative people just like you. Welcome back to another episode of the Everyday Talent Podcast. I'm your host Betty. I'm going to open today's episode with a big question for you. Do you like your current job or current path? If not or if you're not sure are you familiar with that recurrent feeling that something is off? Sometimes we can suppress that feeling but sometimes that feeling suppresses us. We hit a point where we can no longer lie to ourselves and that's what happened to our guest today when she was pursuing her first career path. On today's episode I'm joined by Neda Sachar. Neda is now a writer filmmaker who has garnered international and national recognition. Her short film Unibrow is an Oscar eligible film that won awards and have shown at some of the best festivals worldwide. Goodbye. But what people don't know is that Netta was originally trained and was on the path to become a lawyer. What propelled her to change course? What is the process like? Let's hear from Nedda herself. Welcome back to another episode of the Everyday Talent podcast. Today on the podcast I have a fellow filmmaker here with me. Hi Neda. Hi Betty. I'm so happy to be here. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to talk to you about your journey because as we're recording this episode I know that I just catch you traveling back from festival taking your film everywhere. So this is the perfect moment but let's take a step back and Nedda can you introduce yourself to the audience what you do? And how do you come to do what you do? Yeah absolutely. so my name is Nedda. I'm a filmmaker based out of the Toronto area. I love writing stories about living in the diaspora and I myself grew up in the Irani diaspora in North York and love really coming up with new opportunities to bring that community onto screen. I also write I have a few published poems a short story and a few non fiction. fiction pieces and I'm a member of various art organizations in Toronto. I I've been very active with and and attribute a lot of like my success and and a lot of my like like connections through BIPOC TV and Film through the Relation Film Festival through the Breakthroughs Film Festival which I'm actually on the board of but yeah that's that's me. Amazing. Yeah I can't wait to get into all about like your film. I I'm a big fan of your film Unibrow. It's so awesome. I hope everybody who listened to this podcast get to go to the festival and see it. So I can't wait to dive in and talk to you about your journey as writer director and your film. but before we go there I want you to take us back to the very beginning where you just entered a workforce. Yeah. I want you to remember that Nedda and share with us like who is that Nedda? And what was like dreams and aspirations at the time? Oh man she was going through it. I think like I I work with young people now at my non profit job and also just like through family and whatnot. And and one of the Things that I didn't hear enough about when I I think when I was that age but I like try to tell people is that that first year out of university is going to be hell no matter what. Like you know like I think it's such a period of uncertainty and just tension and growing pains and and in many cases withdrawal because it's for some people their first time being exposed to an environment without structure like where suddenly like it really feels like you're free falling and you have like you know like the onus and burden responsibility are all on your shoulders to like figure out how things are going. and that's really scary and can often result in like a spiral and and and great amount of panic. and I was dove head first into that panic. I mean I think like in terms of like aspirations I left university and I had been throughout my entire time as an undergraduate I'd been very committed to being like I I want to go to law school. that's that's sort of like my general aspiration. And this was something that my parents approved of greatly. And this is something that like I'd been working quite hard for. I I took the LSAT. I I did a lot of like Oh wow. You went really far with that. Yeah. Yeah I know. I know. Yeah. The LSAT's actually like I mean I still enjoy like the logic games. That's super nerdy. I actually also enjoy the logic games. This is a safe environment. This is a safe zone. Yeah judgment free. Yeah but but no like the rest of it's like like like awful like you know like no it was it was brutal. Like it was it was like it was it was really hard. and so like but I'd been very committed to that path. and like pretty shortly after graduating I was like wait I actually I don't think I'm ready for this. Like I don't think I'm ready to go into like you know three years of law school. And I I don't even think that I'm really prepared for what comes after that. Like every time I thought about going to law school I thought about like okay I'll become a lawyer like by like on paper and then I'll go do something else. Like this was this is my like range of thinking. And I think like there was also an attraction to being a lawyer because I you know like I in many ways I'm not saying this is the case for everybody who goes into law because it's incredibly difficult and a huge commitment. but I like for me I was like in some ways I can graduate like my undergrad and then I can go right into law school and nobody's really going to pick up that. I don't know what I'm doing because this is going to be by me another three years effectively to like sort of just like like. Hide in academia and and you know like like just sort of put off the conversation. And this was narratives that I think that like my parents really like encouraged like they really wanted me to my father very blatantly at some points would be like stay in school in your twenties. Like just make sure that you do that. And I I left undergrad and I was like I don't know how good that is. Like I don't know if that's really like what I want to do. And I had I had some very good friends who were like top of their class who were went right into the workforce. Like you know like without like and so that started making me rethink my own relationship with like just you know like career and like you know like like where things were sort of like headed but it made me realize that like if I don't know what I'm doing maybe committing to a program is not the best like approach to that like maybe like you know like holding off like that conversation. It's not great. So I I walked out of school and I was like all right. and I mean I walked out of school. I initially entered a school program that I was hoping would buy me a year and was like more or less funded in my alma mater to like continue. And I lasted seven weeks in that program because for many reasons I think I was I myself was like I was just ready to graduate. I didn't really want to be there. The program wasn't what I thought it was. It was also a very toxic environment and was quite racist. And I really wasn't clicking with like colleagues and peers and professors ironically that program in the seven weeks that I was in it I did take a film production course. and I really like I I disliked it so much like in the context of like working in that program. Like it was it was quite brutal and like really really draining. But it after I left I was just like imagine how good that would feel if it was done well or like if like you know it was a supportive environment or if I got to like experiment or if I got to like you know like try to like work out new things or like things like that like I was like endlessly curious about film suddenly because I had like been in that program but I I dropped out of that program And walked into my first job which was at an MP's office. and ironically the only reason I like really got that job was because I had taken like free law courses. Free law courses yeah. Yeah exactly. And so like I was like okay like let's do this. And I and I mean like I can't even like I hear like you know like I said everybody's first job I think is is very very jarring and very like I think oftentimes like a real like Tidal wave of just anxieties. And and it's a lot to figure out like you know like walking in and like having your day like sort of like set for you and like you know like having having oftentimes like the worst jobs in the office. Like my I literally was at the front desk. I had to respond to everybody who walked into the door. and I also had to like constantly be making calls and I got really my voicemail game is like a plus because of that job and and things like that. Wow. On top of that though it was a job like I I I I stayed there for 10 months. And at the same time I was like you know I mean I was really going through it. I I like was pretty like there was like quite a lot of like arguments at home with my parents because I like had dropped out of grad school and I didn't exactly know what I was doing. And that that was an unacceptable answer for them in many ways. and at the same time I Like you know like was in this job and and was trying to like you know like find support system in Toronto. I had come back from my like undergrad to Toronto and I knew nobody and I was and I had an interest in the arts but I had no idea where to start and this job. Was just like 10 I I stayed there for 10 months and I was like the second longest person there. Wow. Turnover was massive. and other than the MP of course. Although it was touch and go for him too I think for a minute. It was really like it was it was we laughed it out but that's. A stressful period in your life. The internal confusion must be really intense. Very intense. Very intense. I think like really really dramatic. very like like just draining and exhausting. and and really like you know like I mean I think like in retrospect I can look back and it's really funny because I I just like like I made so many connections and made and gained such like a sense of place through that job because it was in the writing that I currently live in and that like allowed me to like you know get to know like all these like little Like local areas and like you know people's needs and like you know like things like that. I actually just recently produced a film in which we needed a mosque location and we and the mosque that we used was a connection that came that like you know I knew through the MP's office. The the secret like superpower that you developed like location scout voicemail. We now know. Genuinely even if I was outreach like so many like I I really I found out that I really enjoyed outreach. Like I I I really love like finding new places and like new people and like building connections and things like that. And I I I was able to do that in that job. It was very similar to grad school. It was like okay what would it be like if if this was a supportive environment? Like what would what I like what what could I accomplish then? Mm hmm. How did you sort of have the courage to because it sounds like like because you're coming back from Toronto you had the no support system. Like how did you find the internal strength to be putting up with like the expectation and the pressure from your parents? And in some way like societal pressure was such a long period. That's honestly like I I mean I think like if I look back now I'm like yeah how did I do ? Like yeah. Kudos to you. Oh no thank you. Thank you. But I to be honest like I mean like I think like at that time like I just it it wasn't much of a choice. Like it was just literally like you know like it was like. It was put up with that pressure or be miserable like you know like or or be really like you know like like stuck or or feel or or like make you know surface level decisions that maybe felt easy but that I knew on the inside was incorrect for me. and I think like at at at multiple points it really came down to like being like I I think I would rather trust my gut and be wrong than trust somebody else's gut. and then never be able to build my own relationship with my own like you know decision making and and my own like agency and independence. And I mean that is easier said than done like I like there's plenty of times even now where I'm like am I have I lost my mind like you know like what was that was that the right thing to do or like what I have to like am I sure I want to do that like there's still plenty of like like I still second guess myself all the time but I think that like really in that period I I Because I had just come from like a period like a a section of my life where I had really almost naively like you know like trusted like other people's instincts for me but very well intentioned instincts but like had like you know like sort of been like you know like a passenger in my own life I suddenly was realizing like the when the time came to bear the consequences of that nobody but myself would have to like you know carry that burden. And I really like and that came the result of that was that I needed to make my own decisions and like you know carve my own way. and it took time like you know like it wasn't like it wasn't exactly like a glamorous kind of like I'm going to be a filmmaker and like the next minute like I'm walking on the Oscars. Not what it's been like. but I think that it really like I can look back at that period and I can be like wow. Like the there was certain critical decisions. That really like you know like like now it feels like I'm I'm living my own life and in many ways. Oh I'm so touched by that. The the the building relationship with one's voice whether you know you know like you said sometimes the voices can. have doubts and all that human stuff but it's the recognition that without that relationship you will always be on someone else's like voice someone else's terms. I wonder how does that kind of relationship you have with trusting your gut at that critical moment in your life has impacted you as a writer now? That's a good question. do you mean in terms of like content of what I write or? Yeah I I guess like yeah I should explain like in in some way. I feel like writing is a very much of like trusting your voice kind of exercise and there's lots of like doubting it's it's a mess in there. You like you know I mean I I I wish. My relationship with writing was like this like calming like you know soothing like sitting in a bath kind of process like oftentimes it feels like all our collective imagination. Yeah absolutely. Yes. I that's what I aspire to. Like that's that's what I ideally like. Most of the time it really feels like I'm in like an interrogator's room. And like somebody has put like a flashlight on me and it's like like write or like like give us your deeper secrets or like tell us your truths or like you know like it really like and so oftentimes like it feels like there's like with writing there's such a there's as you said like you know like it's a real like you know like journey. Through all of your insecurities like through all your self doubts through all like you know like the pains like you know like my procrastination peaks when it comes to like my writing. Like I have to like there's certain times where like I'm writing and I have to like get up and like go for a walk just to like you know like calm myself down and like you know like talk myself off edge and be able to come back. And and so like in many ways ironically like I think like there's been more than once where I've been like look I have a hard enough time because I have to write. Yeah. I have so many like you know like insecurities and like so many hard conversations that have to come up with myself because I have to write. I I don't need that in the external world. Like this this is all this is where my energy needs to go to in terms of like making like those decisions. But I I think like I mean you're right. Like I think like in in the writing journey like so much of it. A lot of it is and especially like for mine like you know like so much of the work that I do is like independent and my own ideas and like you know like things that kind of come together. I I have to I have to be okay with works in progress. I have to be okay with like imperfect drafts and I have to be I have to be like I can't like you know just like throw ideas like I can't I can't just like like slam an idea down because I don't think that it's good. I have to let it sit and sink and like work its way through. and I think that like a lot of that like you know like a lot of that comes with like maturity in general but I think I would have like I I how I don't know how I could be doing that if I was if I didn't feel very like if I if I didn't have a better relationship with my guy or like with my with my inner voice. You share a very very vivid imagery there. I think I've been thinking about that for weeks as I'm doing some writing interrogation room. Yeah. Oh no I I. I. I love that though there's like some warmness there like you're what struck me in your career story you know is that you're very this almost feels like the sense of like there's no choice but to be honest with your inner self. And And that's like I hear that you're guided by that honesty in your journey. It's funny because there's been a couple of times since like that period of my life like when I first graduated like you know like basically like 22 to 24 like there's been times since where hard decisions have kind of come up. And I just like I I mean I I think that I want to do something where I entertain something and I like you know like I I don't necessarily know how I feel about it and whatnot. And then the decision is made and my. Like body shuts down. Mm-Hmm. like I just suddenly start becoming quite like you know back to that headspace of like constantly panicked and really like you know like over overthinking every decision and and being very harsh on myself and like being like you made this mistake and this mistake and this mistake and things like that. And and that usually when I'm in that head space I know that something something's gone. Like or like you know like this decision was not for me and then I have to backtrack and like you know like be like okay like let's let's get back to that like let's let's get back to a headspace that you know I'm not going to like I I I won't lie and say oh I'm always like a happy like love lovely genuine good person. Like no like you know like I I think but I but I do recognize like I I think like. Anybody who's I think like experienced very bad like bouts of like depression or or like anxiety knows the difference between those really like I think like difficult stages and and like a healthy mind in the sense that like You can recognize the good the bad the ugly and it just doesn't have to sit as intensely on you. And I strive as much as possible to sit in that like environment because I think like that's where the work can be done. Mm hmm. Oh I love what you said Cher because I think it's important for us to have that internal gauge. To understand okay when this one here for what you share is like when there's like lots of noises and you notice signs that like is your high space is not in the right place that you're able to say well like there's something is off here. I need to gear myself and support myself towards that a better headspace to make better decisions. Awesome. So take a step like fast forward you're now a filmmaker and you also work a full time job along with your filmmaking. No right? How did like that working at the MP's office You know like you know being confused well what's next jump like that letter come from like how did that letter transform to this letter now? Well you know it's really yeah like I think like a lot of false starts and like a lot of like you know like trials and errors. And honestly like like certainly I think like definitely not by design. Like I I did know what I wanted to do like filmmaking. And I did know that I wanted to like you know like be more intensely involved in like the arts community. but I like you know like I I I guess like I I did I wasn't able to or rather I had a very like specific like vision of like what I wanted to be. And like it's funny how many aspects of that have happened and also many aspects of that have not but I'm okay with that. Those pieces that haven't happened because like you know it makes sense to me now that I'm in it like the way things have kind of evolved but I after the MPs office basically as soon as I started feeling better like I there was a point with like in the MPs office where I kind of had to be like all right like you know like I'm not doing really great. Like I'm gonna like you know like I got like more like you know like I think like urgent areas of like my mental health like under control from like dropping out of grad school and like you know like trying to find my footing and things like that. And as soon as I started feeling better I was like I can't be here. The environment was too bad and I had to dip. but I and it's funny because I now work at a youth mental health nonprofit and the MP if you can believe this. Who was in charge of the mental health caucus of his party. so I actually did get a lot of exposure into like more like mental health conversations and being in that environment. Ironically. The bots all connect in some unexpected way. I know it's just it's so funny but like so that like like after that though I actually was able to find a box office job as a ticket agent at the Tiff Beltlight at the time the Tiff Beltlight box I think it's just the Tiff light box now and then I also began working at a radio station. and this is like really like the time period where I like I started I think like in my head I was treating this as sort of like this is like. What school maybe should have been for me like this sort of like experiential learning and like this like you know just like a lot of like like just learning on the job. I learned editing from that like you know like radio station. I was at the Tiff at at Tiff and I like got to see a like movies for free effectively. Mm-Hmm. and I got to work with people who loved movies and I got to like sell tickets and have discussions with people. Who loved movies and so like in many senses and built like this foundation like I I got to take there were so many cool events like Dee Rees at one point came for Q& A after the film of Pariah and it was incredible to see and be part of and then I like you know like got more like familiar with the like you know like the festivals that would like like ReelAsian that would come into TIFF and like you know like I have like the screenings and things like that. So pieces started coming together in terms of like the communities that I wanted to be part of right after that job. and then I and then at the radio station like I was like gaining a lot of technical skills and this was like a media field. And I I was like surrounded by folks who did work in media but I was incredibly underpaid. And I mean I think like unfortunately that's quite a universal experience for many people who work in media like you know like it is it is very very it's very time consuming jobs really without like a lot of pay. And it got to the point that it was like okay like this is I don't really see myself like growing here and like you know like I'm not sure how I also had like realized that I sort of like I scratched my itch on like the curiosity of like oh what's it like to edit? Like what's it like to do social media and things like that? And now I was like all right like now I like yeah. Been there done that like what's the next step? And that that then also through like you know like the connection ironically like through a connection at the MP's office I was able to build out my first nonprofit job And it was funny because when I walked into that nonprofit job it's not the same job that I am at now but when I was there I I like it was my first time working like a like a full time like you know like one to nine to five. and I was like Oh my God. This is so much less intense and grueling than so many of like the contract jobs that I've worked and so much of like the kind of like more I think like part time like kind of work that came in and I that's something that like I try to tell people now like I and so many part time jobs are really just like full time jobs crunched into two little hours with Half the pay. so just be wary of them. Like I'm not saying like they're all like you know Like I think like everybody has their own like kind of like journey and like they'll find there's plenty of part time jobs that Do make it worth it and things like that but there are a significant amount that I see really effectively especially targeting young people and trying to like justify like you know like huge amounts of works with very little like you know like pay. So once I I got into that full time role and I realized that I had more time than I did when I was in my part time job and also a more steady like you know I started suddenly being able to have savings and I started suddenly being able to like kind of Live more like like I think like stab stably. then it re then I like you know like I was like okay this is I'm onto something here. COVID hits I get laid off from another nonprofit job and I spent seven months unemployed. wow. And it was it was yeah it was I mean it was it was quite like. It was very brutal like it was it was like a very like I think like trying time and like it felt in many ways like I was like what what had been the point of all that work when I was like really just right back in like that same like mindset of like panic and uncertainty and I have no idea like what's going on and like nobody will take me and I keep like applying to these jobs and things like that. and it was like a very like and but but you know Ironically like you know like in that time period like I started to keep myself busy. I started like volunteering a lot or like you know like trying to like you know like extend my like like just just connect with people. and and you'll remember like you know COVID times where everything got to be online and like whatnot. I and I had already taken the BIPOC. Kids writing class in 2020 BIPOC TV and films kids writing class. I was like the I believe the second version of this class offering. I can now like that class was offered in 2020. It is 2024 now. so four years later I can basically attribute everything that I have in like film and like the TV space right now to that class. Even even though I like you know like the focus of it was in kids writing but like so many of my like now like you know like collaboratives and friends like you know they came through like you know that class and like that that like environment and that community and that was really like you know that was Truly a saving grace like for lack of a better word in that like a period of unemployment. Because then I in that time like started volunteering for BIPOC as well. Like you know like as like a social media assistant. That well my cohort of like volunteers my friend Alicia Insignale actually who's a really incredible um I believe her position title is executive at a Wattpad was like Hey I'm producing this short film. would you like would you want to PA on there? and I like I was like Oh yeah sure. this is this is now in like I think like early. Or late May of June 2021. so things had just started opening up like you know like and I had just like gone through like this like really intense like bout of like unemployment and like trying to like reach out to like communities and whatnot. I PA'd on a film set. and I just. Like I was like oh my god I can do this. Like it it I like really like You had a like whole body full body feeling. Mm hmm. Yes it it really felt and I've been in plenty of sets that have not generated that same feeling unfortunately since like you know like it Thank you for that particular set. Yeah exactly. And I did everything. Genuinely like it was it was it was there's no other word for it like it really felt magical. it really really felt like it felt very eye opening it felt very invigorating the short itself is was called Fresh Meat and it was directed by Louis Faha And that like watching Lou work behind camera and like talking to her actors and everything like these were things that like really just stayed with me like I I really like I was like oh I I want to do that. Like that that's that's like this is something here. and because I had had seven months of unemployment I had it. been writing like you know like I I'd gotten some right at like you know poetry published I'd gotten like nonfiction pieces out. I I had like the drafts of the short story that were later published on. and I had like you know scripts I had and I had two short film scripts one that one which was unibrow which is the film that's in festival circuit now. And the other was my first short film called Rachel and Raha. And Rachel and Raha was this queer summer film. And we were in the summer. and I was like well I could do this this summer or I could do it next summer. I was like well why not? Why not now? Yeah. But let's let's go for it. and then really truly like it's it's funny how life works because it was like seven months of like nothing nothing nothing. And then the week not even the week the day that I started on the Fresh Meat set was the day that my current nonprofit job called me up. and we're like Hey it's crazy. Yeah. Synchronicity moments. It was just wild. Like it was just like like in the matter of in the course of like you know like I guess like a week like you know like it it really felt like I was like Oh my God like I I now have like a full time job and now I'm making a short film. and in many ways things cannot happen like in sequence. I always say. No no things can never like if you if you're like Oh it would be really good timing if this happens now like you know let's say like you know the job came seven months before I made my short film like I could have saved up I could have like you know calmed down a bit I could have like worked on no no no no that that doesn't happen. Wow so but that's seven months though. Like you know once again I'm like blown away by your tenacity cuz like you know when things like you're like You know you painted this picture nothing nothing. And you started like taking course like you were really active. You were not like just sitting around and be like. Oh so sad like you know like eating up your feeling and all that like but it's hard to sometimes in an elongated period of unemployment it's hard to like keep one's hope up. What supported you? Oh no and I just want to say honestly like I like it probably was going to be healthier if I was like Oh this is so sad. Let me mourn this. Like you know like I think like I I'm I'm not good at that. Like I I strive to be like you know like I think like there's there's it's really important to be able to feel your feelings and and and to like you know like be able to welcome stillness. I am so bad at that. Like I I absolutely like I I need to be busy because otherwise like I I I just like start like I don't know like scratching. Everywhere. Yeah. Exactly exactly. And I'm I'm like I I see this as a flaw. Like I I want to work at that. but I think like in many ways that was like I I just I you know I I think like I I really I really really was nervous in that period. And but at the same time it was weird because I remember for like the first like six months being absolutely terrified that I am never going to find another job. Like you know like and and these were like sort of the same crushing I think like mentalities that really came with like after grad school like after dropping out of grad school as well. Like I am never going to leave this awful job. Like you know like or I am never going to find a new job or I am never going to be able to make it. Like and I I think like as soon as I was able to sort of like Be like okay like it's not that serious like or like you know like like like like we can we can hear that fear but we don't have to accept it as a truth. The second you I started doing that the second I was like look I'm on EI and that like you know people had been joking to me that EI is like the best art council grant and but like you know like I I leaned into that like you know like I I started like thinking about what I enjoy. I started really being like well do I do I just want to walk into like any job or do I want to kind of like take my time and like find something that like really fits me and like something I can get excited about? And do I want to explore other avenues? And like like the second I started like calming down and like opening things up that's when suddenly these things started happening. and so yeah. How powerful. It's powerful that you recognize that as well. That the opening up of the headspace is like in some way has. correlated at least we know some of the opportunities that come. I think so. I I wish I was better at remembering that every time I fell I fell into like a pickle. Like you know like I feel like I have to go through like the same thing of like Oh God panic panic panic panic. Well let's calm down. And then something comes. Well we have this recorded now so. That's exactly. Always listen back to this. Yeah. So and then now like like I feel like we are just like going through like a movie like this. You just painted a second act. And of course you have many acts to come but right now the first act is you co holding these two universes of your non profit job at a mental health charity and being a filmmaker. Tell us about that. Yeah I think like it's like like I said like you know like within the course of a week I went from being unemployed and being very like you know like I think like having my time very undefined and not and being very uncertain of the future to suddenly having like you know like a full time job and making like a short film like oftentimes like synchronicity like you know like like very like like I had one laptop that was like for my work and then one that was my personal laptop. And I like you know like I would complete a meeting where I would send an email on my work laptop and then I would send another email about my film like you know like on my personal one like Literal like you know back and forth. and I remember thinking to myself like this is pretty intense. I I like I don't know how long I can keep this up. And to be honest like three years later. I I've been more or less like in in many aspects like at that pace but I think like for me I I just I've gotten so very lucky in finding like a workspace that really values I think like they're like the flexibility and and like you know like mental health like you know like wellbeing And I think like that like you know like I've been like lucky to have like you know like a support system through work that has allowed me to to really like be able to pursue filmmaking and like be able to pursue art and and ironically like you know like I think like I joked to everybody that like I had applied to so many industry quote unquote industry jobs especially in that period when I was unemployed like you know like and I had just been consistently rejected. If I had gotten one of them I absolutely would have gone for it. Like that would have made sense. But like Film industry listen to this. Well I you know I mean I think like these are very competitive jobs and they oftentimes comes with like very intense hours and they like by the nature of the work they are not flexible. And then ironically that like was everything that I was able to get with my nonprofit job that then allowed me to pursue like my own art. and I think in many ways you know You know like I I think like at times there certainly has been a number of times where it's been like Oh if I just like if I had like more time or maybe if I wasn't like you know like at this day job like I could I could like you know like really like really be doing film like more seriously and things like that. But but I actually like you know like I mean like that that's sort of like not my best self talking like that often comes from like a space of anxiety. Maybe like I think like. More often than not I'm able to recognize that I think that that space like and like you know like the ability in a sense to like I guess like have like have have both and and be able to like work in both have have allowed me to get farther along with my like you know like filmmaking pursuits than than otherwise. I don't know if that'll stay the same forever. But that like you know so far has been something that I feel like I've been able to take advantage of. One thing that like I think in our previous conversations that Shrek me about your journey is also like you know just because you pursue and you are going you know doing everything you can to pursue your passion in film it doesn't mean that You have to forego like the sense of stability that your job gives you and and I think that's so important to note to people who are listening to this podcast and people who are considering to pursue their passion mid career because like we often pin that into kind of like either or like you either go in 100 percent with film or whatever creative endeavor whatever. or the passion that you always had or you are staying at your stable job. What's your take on that? No I I I think it's such important conversations. I I think where I'm at I there is art and there is industry. and I like I don't know like I I I think like ironically like I like you know like I I feel like as somebody who like really like tries very hard to like hold on to like you know like in a sense like And anti capitalist kind of like values and like you know like anti like oppressive sort of like values. I I like I don't know who's winning off of an industry that like demands your life and your wellness effectively. And I don't like you know like I mean the way like what I saw of my time in trying to pursue like those jobs and like in doing those jobs and like really like you know like going quote unquote all in which I also like you know like I don't know what all in means like you know I don't know either. Yeah. Yeah. Like you know like I like all the genuinely yeah exactly. Like 12 hours of like you know like like set jobs that like you know like don't don't then like give you like time to like you know like I don't know like spend time with your like family and like loved ones and like you know like breathe and and and like work on your own projects and things like that. Like is that all in? Like I and and I I don't mean to like you know I mean like I know plenty of people now who who really really. Like love love their careers like in in kind of like industry and like are able to do really like you know like like and who you know like are are are making things work for themselves I was really struggling without like. the flexibility that came with like a lot of these like industry sort of like rules. And then I was also struggling with the time in between jobs. Like there's so few permanent like you know like long term kind of like placements. Like there's there's oftentimes like something that'll come that five months is a long time in our industry. Like you know like and that and like you know like I in in so many other like spaces like that like five months is nothing like you know like like what does that like Like so I I it I was really struggling with that. I also was really like I think like realizing that like I really like you know like with like the day job like right now like I my one of my films is in festival circuit and I really need like you know like I I I've been lucky enough to be able to travel with it to many of not to not everywhere but like to to many of like the festivals and that like you know like that sort of like. Financial independency comes from having a day job. and so like like in many ways like the experience is all that more enriched because of that. And so I like I mean I don't know like I I for me I I'm oftentimes flabbergasted at like the way that we normalize such intense conversations like in in the space like I've I've been there's been times where like it's been named that like you know you can do this like you can work in like you can climb like you know like like I don't know like the scene or like the industry ladder but you might not be able to have kids. and that that is just such a I don't know. I wouldn't I swear. Yeah I know. I know some of the equations there are like yeah it's like oh wow. You just said that to my face. Genuinely like you know like I I know like early and and it wasn't like you know like it's just like something that's like like noted names. Like you know like like this is just something that we have like all normalized and like I've also heard that like it's been named that like like. Film sets are built around like like largely like you know like white straight men who like to do coke. Like you know like those are the only people who are able to like keep up with that base and like really able to and everybody else is sort of like just that's like so he's like you know traveling with a vessel circuit. Then like there's like a you know cause unspoken rule about like Oh people who are single and don't have family can hold those jobs longer. Yeah. And it's like why? Why? I don't understand. Like and and I think like in in and you know I mean like in a lot of ways I think like also by working in the job that I have like my day job I I also like you know like I think like those conversations get so normalized and like you know like when I was younger I I really like I took them as like I just heard them. Like I was like Oh right. Okay. Yeah absolutely. Got it. Got it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like ticketless like Ticket eating kind of thing. Yeah. Mm hmm. I'm like you know ironically on the other side I'm like surrounded by co workers that are like so committed to like you know Like mental health and like wellness and well being and they're like like what do you mean? Like you know like that that's horrible. Like I that should not be normalized That should not be a thing and and that like reality check is really like helpful and like very good And so for me like personally like I just like I I don't I don't trust the industry to have my well being heart. Like I don't trust any system to have my well being. Like I think like every unfortunately we have not done good work as like like we unfortunately we like you know like we are part of a A very various sort of like systems that do not prioritize like individuals well being or like collective community well being. but I especially do not trust like this industry like you know like to really like have my long term wellness at at front. And so so I like my My only way of kind of like being able to sort of like circumvent that is being like okay let me take like the fundamentals and like the foundational things like like wellness and benefits and and you know like vacation days and like flexibility out of their hands. and let me. have those needs met somewhere else and let me then stay here for the art. and and be able to kind of like negotiate that space on my terms. I have to say like even though I'm interviewing you I feel so seen in what you just said. Cause I I feel like this is why I'm like always like sort of like like haven't been in the industry or or in Congo before. I feel like my wellness is better kept when I'm like half this half of my foot is in. And. And I think it comes from that same place where I'm like I don't trust like to bestow myself my wellness my well being to be completely under some of the tenets or unspoken rules of how this film industry or media industry is run. Yeah. Absolutely. No. And I know that that that like I I feel like I feel like I I long for the days in which we like the more people are able to just like voice that and and like you know like sort of and I I like to think that and you know I mean like I think like in these last like couple of years like we've really seen like a lot of movements that have gone lengths to like be able to name that. Like there were so many during when the strikes were happening in the States there were so many like examples of like like writers who had gotten Emmys and like you know been nominated for things who were like I was on food stamps while I was doing that. And I I just remember thinking like. That's not funny. Like that that's so horrible. Like what a what a awful position to put somebody in. Like that's incredibly exploitive. Yeah. We should not promote that as like the norm that we go out that above and beyond to sacrifice for our career. Yeah. Genuinely. Yeah. I feel like you and I can go for like coffee and talk for hours on this topic. I'd love to! Many topics yeah. My secret agenda with coming on this interview is that I just get to talk to you buddy. Oh do you think that was not my secret agenda? Yeah so you it would be like disservice to not talk about like your film and That it's been your short film Universal has done incredibly well you just came back from like festivals it's gone to festivals around the world. I'm curious to ask you You know although this question might be too early but like what's like what are you looking forward in this next year with everything? Not just film but maybe your wellness and your career? I think like ironically I I I I I think this year is going to well first of all thank you like that's very kind like and I'm also like I've been really excited by like you know like the journey Unibrow's like been able to take and and where I've also been able to go with it and and the conversations that I've been able to have with people around it which which In many ways I think was like back when I was like 22 and like you know had dropped out of like grad school had been like you know like like situations and like scenarios that I was like I want to do that. I want so it's it's been really nice to have that effect. I think ironically I'm about to head into another undefined year. I don't exactly know what's happening next. I I have a few like you know like projects and like a few like game plans and that I. Want to pursue but nothing concrete like nothing that's like you know like sort of like set in stone. And I think that like I'm I'm approaching a different time of my life like you know like as well like In terms of like you know like do I keep making shorts or should I like think of like a feature or like and I also like you know I'm just like like you know like I it's it's a it's definitely a it's definitely I remember the last festival I went to with Unibrow was the Palm Springs International Short Fest. and it was such a thrilling experience with so many like incredible films and then and then the filmmakers present to be able to connect with. And I remember walking out being like oh gosh I have more questions than I have answers. and so this year I think I need I think I I am going to do my best for this next bit to like be okay with that and like to accept that like as part of the process as well. and to just sort of like. Like you know like try not to like panic myself into a decision and like you know like try to try to like sit with like that uncertainty that if anybody who knows me including yourself that he knows how that is for me like that's like the real challenge. But like I think like those are the sort of things that I like Looking to do in this next year but but like on I guess like on a more like kind of like surface level sort of thing. Like Unibrow is still in festival circuit. I'm looking forward to like seeing where like it finally ends up. I'd love for it to be like widely accessible. On like some sort of platform. So trying to figure that out. I I have a few writing projects that I am looking to like you know like finalize and like move down like those paths. and I like you know like more than anything I'm just I I also like I'm I'm on the board of a the Breakthroughs Film festival festival as I said. Mm-Hmm. Festival. and that festival is happening in December . Um and uh yay. Mm-Hmm . I'm very excited to see like you know like that hard work like pay off as well. So I think like you know like I it's it's sort of it's weird because it's like the same old but also not the same old. I I think I'm I'm I'm entering like kind of like a transitional year. Yeah. Thank you for being so honest about that. And and I just want to say when you said like you know you walk off Palm Spring and had more questions than answers. And I know that sitting with that uncertainty is difficult. and at the same time I ironically like when entering in 2024 one of the wish that I had for myself was like ask better questions about myself. And and I just think it's such a powerful thing to be able to sit with questions and ask yourself a different question and explore a different avenue. That's in sometimes Like not sometimes. I think any time is more important than the output that we put out there. I totally agree. Yeah. So to end this interview how can people connect with you? And I know you wish you kind of wish that Unibrow would be like you know widely accessible on the platform in the future. I think it's a matter of when not when. Whether it will happen. Thank you. But in the meantime if people hear this like interview they want to connect with you where they can find you. yeah so my Instagram is at Ned's John which is N E D S John J A N. I also have a website www. nedassarshar. com. I I I put all my like weebly skills to the test to get that going. So yeah so we put all those in the show notes for people who want to connect with you and best of luck with the you know I know the festival circuit is not finished yet for the film but also like wishing you best of luck in terms of like. You know sitting with the uncertainty and giving grace to yourself from walking off from a very busy period. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for this space to be able to like have such like rich and and impactful conversations. 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